A Big, Bold Vision for Humans on the Moon with Dr. Lakshmi Karan

Today's episode is epic! Join guest Dr. Lakshmi Karan, alongside her fellow visionaries at LunArc, is pioneering a movement that reframes our approach to space travel. Their goal is to ensure that humanity's journey to the moon transcends mere technological achievement, becoming instead an exercise in cooperation, humility, and democratic participation. We get 'the basics' from Dr. Karan on the status of space exploration, LunArc's key role, how she thinks about space exploration at a time of great polarization here on earth. Some serious wisdom is dropped about not just a future in space, but how to bridge divides here at home. 

Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to the. Space in between podcast. I'm your host Lee Morgan. Again, this podcast is for listeners who are fed up. Up with the hyperpolarized nature of the world today. And who crave. Craves spaces where current events can be discussed in construct. enlightening and delightful ways. Let's get.

Leigh Morgan: 0:27

How can going to the moon help bridge divides here on earth today? We're going to find out. Be forewarned, my friends, this is going to be a fun episode. are going to spend time with one of the most brilliant, high integrity, and forward thinking women that I know, Dr. Lakshmi Karan. Lakshmi is one of those people who have the rare ability to envision a world quantum leaps ahead of the rest of us. While also staying grounded in the earthly realities of today, these skills are perfect for her current work as co founder of LoonArc and its affiliate Future Frontiers Institute. are nonprofits who have a shared vision to ensure sustainable responsible and equitable space development. Yes, I said equitable space development. the near term focus is on human settlements on the moon. We're going to learn more about what this looks. and feels like in practice. And along the way, learn how to think about such a big, bold vision while also bearing witness to a world that can sometimes feel polarized. And a little unstable staying in this tension, holding high aspirations during trying times is very much what the space in between podcast is all about. A little bit more about my guest today, prior to her current work to democratize space exploration, Lakshmi was a leader in philanthropy she had roles at the Skoll foundation in a charitable organization called for health, She was head of charitable giving for Genentech, a biotech company, and she has advised a number of multinational companies strategy. Lakshmi, welcome to the Space in Between podcast.

Lakshmi Karan: 2:38

Thank you, thank you. My pleasure. And I loved how you said, sometimes my, my heart and my brain is in the stars and my feet are grounded. So I'm always in that space in between. So it's nice to be in this nuance with you.

Leigh Morgan: 2:53

I love it. So first question, I shared a little bit about your career, which has taken you across a number of sectors. And now as a leader in our efforts to go to the moon think about how do we go to the to the moon and what do we do when we get there? What's the common passion that ties all of your work together?

Lakshmi Karan: 3:17

There was, there was one part of my career that you skipped, which was the first part, which is I was a technologist. So I was one of the original coders. I was a coder. Which kind of, the thread continues from there, which is to say one of the things that drives me is curiosity.

Leigh Morgan: 3:34

Hmm.

Lakshmi Karan: 3:36

And I'm an eternal optimist. Do you know how they say a glass half full? I imagine the glass and then half full. So for me, I think tackling complex challenges is something that I've always liked from my coding problem solving days. But over time, moving into the social sector, you know, what I realized is within all of that mess, actually, there are threads of possibilities. waiting to be discovered. And, and I think that, you know, always reinforced and energized me when I got out of it. And we were able to pull those threads out that I could jump into the next complexity because I'd done it. And I know that somewhere in there, there's a better outcome. So I would say optimism and curiosities kind of kept me going. And, uh, I need both of them in loads. For this new adventure in space.

Leigh Morgan: 4:32

I would guess you do. So we're gonna hear a lot more about that. Is there something in your family of origin and growing up were these values or inclinations of curiosity and this boundless optimism that you have? Is that just a Lakshmi thing or was that part of your family culture going up?

Lakshmi Karan: 4:54

Uh, you know, I can't say I don't know about the family culture thing, but it definitely influenced me. My mother was a social worker. And so for, you know, all her life I've seen, I've grown up in a household where in India, where we. You know, my mother's work, you know, gave me the opportunity to see people really suffering and how small acts of kindness can transform lives. And what that means. So on one hand, you are deeply moved by the day to day suffering. And on the other hand, you see people actually working to solve it. Right. So I think somewhere that optimism that probably got woven in. Um, the creativity, I think it's just, uh, the wonder and the curiosity of life. You know, just the awe of like, what's out there? What's going on with that centipede? You know, I've always had that curiosity with things. And I, and I think with space, Carl Sagan, when I was in India growing up, Cosmos came out. And, little did I know, decades later, I'd be revisiting that. But I think just wonder of the world, has always been a part of how I look at things.

Leigh Morgan: 6:09

I love that you referenced the wonder of a centipede. And then now space, I mean, the ties that bind this optimism, the curiosity and really thriving in complexity. That's served you well, I know, and certainly as we turn now to thinking about space exploration and bridging divides. Let's set the table, if you will. space exploration and humans going to the moon. What are the basics that listeners should know? What's the current state? What's happening right now?

Lakshmi Karan: 6:50

Wait, and I will say this in layman terms because until recently I'm a layman in the space sector. So it's, it's,

Leigh Morgan: 6:57

like an expert to this actual layman.

Lakshmi Karan: 7:01

I think I think that's relatable to a lot of people because a lot of people don't know about this. Um, I think the first thing is we're in the midst of a space race. and this one is very different than the geopolitical one we saw decades ago, because now we have the private sector in it. And what that means is innovate, rapid innovation. Things are moving a lot faster than when you just had governments doing it. And there's a lot more money coming in to advance these technologies. So first there's a space race. Second, it's moving really, really fast. And what, what do I mean by that? Well, within the next decade, humans will be back on the moon. Sooner, but let's just say decade. Within two decades, they would be living on the moon. So if you think of the International Space Station right now, you're going to actually see humans on the moon. And I don't even know about Mars, but let's talk about the moon because that's, that's where a lot of the energy has been thus far. and the major drivers for this change are private companies. So SpaceX, I'm sure a lot of people have heard of Elon Musk, his space company, SpaceX. They've got one of the largest spacecraft, Starship, that they're testing. I mean, it's, it's insane. It can It's a reusable spacecraft. Go to the moon and back with a hundred metric tons. And the way I, I, I understood it is it's like, what is a hundred metric tons? It's like sending 15 elephants to the moon and back. Okay. So we,

Leigh Morgan: 8:36

elephants to

Lakshmi Karan: 8:37

yeah, we We started with centipedes, we've now come to elephants. Let's keep track of that. Um, but what, it's a game changer, right? When Starship flies, and it will, because there are brilliant people working on this, you're going to have the ability to be able to send 100 metric tons to the moon and bring 100 metric tons of something. And what's that something? And that's the race, is mining. You know, there's a lot of rare earth metals, and I'm sure you've heard about that. In the political discourse, um, so that's, that's the incentive, but for me, I think the parallel, the way I think about it, given my social sector work for the last couple of decades, is really thinking about the historical references for something like this, and where has this happened before? So, you know, you, you, I'm, I'm now in Portugal. So you actually think about like, oh, there was, there was this once explorer that went out, you know, um, there were the railroads that were put out. And what's common about both of these? Central to this was a sense of national identity, a national pride, a sense of economic opportunity, a sense of innovation, technological, you know, railroads were advanced technology at that time, steam engines. So we're seeing the same things. National pride.

Leigh Morgan: 9:58

is that another way of saying colonization? Is there a similarity of the aspirations to go to the moon, settle, bring things back with what you're describing?

Lakshmi Karan: 10:12

Well, I think, I think the language is a little bit more sophisticated. I don't think people, people are aware enough to not say we're going to colonize the moon. but I think where we haven't given much thought is everyone says, we go to space to save humanity, space for all. I mean, it's a, it's a genuine statement. You look at private companies, governments, that's what they say. And that's good. But I think what we need to do is unpack. So what does that look like? If it is space for all, then what is the resource allocation model like? If you go and mine there. What does that look like? And I think that work has not happened. And in the absence of that, the outcome is going to look like colonization, whether we use that term or not, whether we intended to be or not,

Leigh Morgan: 11:01

I see.

Lakshmi Karan: 11:03

I think, I think that's where, um, I don't think it's the language. I think, uh, things are moving so fast that competition is saying if you pause to actually think, Okay. and be more exclusive, you're going to lose out on the race.

Leigh Morgan: 11:20

I see. And who are, so you talked about the private sector and SpaceX, which is owned by Elon Musk, and they, they've been doing these amazing most successful. Some aren't, but I know that they build that into their, uh,

Lakshmi Karan: 11:34

going to get it done.

Leigh Morgan: 11:35

Yeah.

Lakshmi Karan: 11:36

Yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 11:36

like, you got to test if you don't do it. Who else? Cause I think Bezos, Jeff

Lakshmi Karan: 11:40

Yeah. Blue

Leigh Morgan: 11:40

has.

Lakshmi Karan: 11:41

Origin. Blue Origin was kind of, you know, a little dormant for a while. I mean, I think SpaceX was in the news with a lot more rapid, innovation, but I think now they're picking up, uh, Blue Origin. They're, they're also focused on the moon, blue moon. Um, it's not just about the moon. You know, you have small companies. NASA, a few years ago, started to put out, you know, um, commercial payload, grants. And so now you have a lot of smaller companies. Um, one of Lunok's mission is headed on a commercial lander to the moon. We'll talk a little bit about that. So you have a lot of smaller companies, you have companies that are looking at, you know, technologies to mine asteroids, so it's not just the moon, it's asteroids. But also one of the things we forget is space is not out there. Space is just outside the Earth. Space starts there, right? You have satellites.

Leigh Morgan: 12:34

Yeah.

Lakshmi Karan: 12:35

satellites, right? and listen, you and I are talking right now where you're on a different continent. So rare earth metals, satellites have all enabled this conversation about the future of the world. But one of the things that's also coming up is space debris, because as you have more and more low cost ability and more demand for satellites or communication capabilities or military capabilities or, other, other technology. Um, we may not see the dark sky or what do they call that, you know, the, the natural sky because you're not sure if you're actually seeing a satellite or you're seeing a star. The

Leigh Morgan: 13:16

might just be clutter out there. So tell us about the origin story of Loon Ark, we have this situation where there's private sector companies racing, private companies are saying, we're going to be the first. And this is all framed as this is good for humanity. And also we can make a lot of money because there's minerals that can be mined and brought back And somewhere along the line, you and at least one or two other co conspirators thought what's our role here. So what's the story of Loon Ark? Co

Lakshmi Karan: 13:57

um, so my, when I, when I used to be in Silicon Valley, I was introduced to a bunch of folks, visionary thinkers at NASA Ames, space portal office. And I was introduced to this idea that they were noodling on for decades around what if when humans went back, the first entity is a learning institution, right? Like it just, it grabbed me, not because I love universities. That's not, that's not it. But what it symbolized was the values of humility. Curiosity and cooperation that those would be the stepping stones with which humans will become intraplanetary, right? For me, that was deeply, appealing, coupled with, uh, this realization that we've been trying to fix the social issues on earth for centuries. They still persist. Why is that? Because we are trying to operate within entrenched systems that we can't break apart. So it's like a band aid. You're trying to solve things and they pop up and, and it's going on. Um, and, and space, the imminent possibility of humans experiencing space for me felt like it could be a canvas to reimagine systems. what if we could, what if we literally went, you know, that whole thing, you know, I love you to the moon and back. What if we literally went to the moon and came back with a perspective and possibilities and a slate of solutions that actually shifted our perspectives. that was the drawing force for me. COVID happened, which then everything kind of slowed down and. You know, um, but around 2022, my, fellow co founder, Topher Wilkins, who is the CEO of Opportunity Collaboration, an amazing network of thousands of leaders working on poverty issues, we said, let's, restart this idea and see where it goes. And the intent was, let's do it. Is it possible to build a citizen led movement that is advocating for a better space, outcome? I'm a co founder because LUNARC, LUNARC doesn't have a CEO. LUNARC is a bunch of volunteers right now that we are co leading this effort. Not, you know, at some point we will need a leader to bring more structure, but I think the way we see LUNARC is as a steward, almost like scaffolding for what needs to happen. Um, we're experimenting with different decision making empowerment models. So that citizens of the world will be co owners of Lunar University and will be co designing it. This is not going to be, you know, I'm not going to pick on Stanford, but I'll just say the name. Like, Stanford University, brick and mortar on the moon. Right. With an endowment, there's actually be a community owned. I don't know if there's a university like that, you know, like a student owned university, I don't know.

Leigh Morgan: 17:01

Interesting.

Lakshmi Karan: 17:03

But that's how by

Leigh Morgan: 17:05

that, that's a really big vision which eventually, and check me if I'm wrong, will be a, some sort of loon learning institution. a physical space on the moon has been organized. Led, funded by citizens, which means not by the private sector, although there may be some private sector support,

Lakshmi Karan: 17:33

an individual entity, let's put it that way.

Leigh Morgan: 17:35

an individual.

Lakshmi Karan: 17:37

Listen, you're, if there's a private sector person listening to this podcast, you want a partner, you want to help us yet. Join us. We're a non profit initiative, right? So it's not excluding. We want governments. We want NASA. We want everybody to be a part of this, because what we're seeing is the way the world is right now, it's getting more fragmented and they're going to just transport all of that up to the moon, right? I don't see in the next 10 years. I don't see us coming up with a better model. And so we're saying, can we be the Antarctica on the moon? Can we actually be that holding ground? That is bringing together people. I mean, it'll be as cold as Antarctic colder. You could have an American base, or a China base, or an Iran base, or an Israel base, or an India base. But, you know, somewhere, you know, in the harsh reality of the moon, you need each other. And where you need each other is in this learning entity.

Leigh Morgan: 18:37

could go wrong if Lunar doesn't happen. You're an optimist. So I'm going to reframe this question and then we'll we'll turn it on its head. When I say what could go wrong, what are what would be the worst case? for some reason doesn't happen and we have this private sector race to get to the moon. What would be your worst fear? You just said we transport the fragmentation, the polarization, the tetheredness to commercialization. That's my add to the moon. Is that, did I get that right? Or what else

Lakshmi Karan: 19:18

Um,

Leigh Morgan: 19:18

you

Lakshmi Karan: 19:18

you know, what, what, you know, what would, what we'd miss? And it's not just about LUNARC and maybe someone hears this podcast and they say, you know what, we've been doing something like this and let's collaborate. Right. Like, so, but what we'll miss. is this is a once in a species moment. Humans are going to be interplanetary people. This is happening, right? I can't think of something else in history that could be this profoundly shifting for us, our consciousness. And so it allowed the small window of two decades, possibly, for us. To rethink how we would live in our home planet, that window, that window, if that's lost, right, I'm being an optimist. I would say, listen, never say never. We will soldier on. But what I'm saying is we've struggled to break down thousands of years of entrenched systems. As we allow those to be solidified, it's going to get harder to break down. So, why carry a hammer to break something down when you can carry a hammer to build something new? You're still going to have the hammer, let's just build instead of having to wield it to break it down.

Leigh Morgan: 20:36

Brilliant. I love that metaphor, a hammer to build a new based on the values that you have mentioned, which is humility, curiosity, and

Lakshmi Karan: 20:48

Cooperate.

Leigh Morgan: 20:49

cooperation.

Lakshmi Karan: 20:50

Cooperation, collaboration, whatever, you know, interconnectedness, interbeing.

Leigh Morgan: 20:55

Yeah. This is really exciting. And tell me what milestones LUNARC has had in the last four or five years. What have you done tangibly go from this big vision to knowing that we will have humans. On the moon again, and then eventually settling in the next 20 years. So what, what do you want listeners to know about the earthly reality? What are those steps that you are taking to enact and manifest this vision?

Lakshmi Karan: 21:32

I love that you said four or five years ago, because Luna, it's just two year old. We came into being in, in the end of 2022. And I think one of the first things we wanted to do, and when we set this out, we said, there's a big audacious goal out there, people. Like, what are we talking about here? Where are we going to start? If we want to achieve that, we need millions of people to get engaged. It's not going to be like 10 of us doing this, okay? That's not even going to be the right way to do it. So how do we, A, inform millions of people that there is a space race? Everything that I've told you, right? How do we help them understand? But more importantly, actually, How do we say, it doesn't matter if you're a kid in Somalia, or you're a carpenter in Jordan, or you're a farmer in Bolivia, or you're a teacher in America, you have a right and a place in this conversation. You don't have to be a billionaire, you don't have to be a space scientist. That sense of agency needs to be felt, okay? Before we invite people to come and build the Lunar The first part is people have to feel like I have a right to be in this conversation. And so it's been actually remarkably successful in the last couple of years. We, um, we are on two Lunar missions. We said, we have to send something to the moon. We have to have a literal moon shot to make this resonate. So our first mission that launched January 15th on Firefly's Blue Ghost Lander is carrying, the first community art gallery to the moon. Now, listen, there have been other arts into the moon, okay? So we're not competing here. But I'll tell you why it's called the community art gallery. The participants in this are the most unlikely pioneers. These are people who live in marginalized communities, refugees, people so remote they're across the digital divide. And there are thousands, tens of thousands of them from 40 countries have contributed their visions for space. And we call it art because, listen, they're not professional artists. But humans have an innate ability to create art. Even if you take a stick and draw it on the ground, that's art.

Leigh Morgan: 23:43

even this non artist is speaking now. Yes. It's amazing

Lakshmi Karan: 23:48

You dream, right?

Leigh Morgan: 23:49

happens.

Lakshmi Karan: 23:50

Yeah, so we wanted to say, humans, what connects humans? Our breath, we all breathe. We all dream, and we all can do art. And so let's bring that together, but let's be, let's set the first stone with people who are never invited into this conversation, right? And, and, and I think as the world sees the rocket land, I mean, the lander get there. Send good thoughts March 3rd. We'll be cheering for all the other folks who are going in that payload. Yay for them, but also

Leigh Morgan: 24:23

the launch is on March 3rd,

Lakshmi Karan: 24:25

know the launch January 15th. It's taking a little journey around earth and it's now orbiting the moon and it lands scheduled to land March 3rd. We're having a landing party, so, uh, we can put a link, uh, for them.

Leigh Morgan: 24:41

please. And by the way, this well, we are recording this in late February and the aim is to have this in early March. And the thing that will be literally planted on the moon is a capsule with art in it. Is that accurate?

Lakshmi Karan: 24:57

Yes, absolutely. And you, and here's the best part. On a full moon night, or even like a bright moon night, you can look at the landing site. If you look at the, if you look at the moon, the top right hand corner, there's a small circle called Mare Crisium. So, this child in Togo, or a child in Bangladesh, can look up at a full moon and say, my art is up there. And every other child like them in other countries is going to say, wow, that kid's art is up there? Then so can I. And I think that's the conversation starter to, to get to your question of how are we going to get to the moon? You first have to get people to feel the possibility that we feel. And then we've, we're launching other steps this year that would then build on it.

Leigh Morgan: 25:41

That's exciting. I do not have a telescope, but my father went through a period where he was I love my dad. He's so amazing. And he's, kind of this awesome super nerd and he picks up hobbies and he had a hobby for a couple of years with telescopes. He lives in the Pacific Northwest like me. So there's some limited times when you actually can actually peer up to the sky with we, because we have a lot of cloud cover here. But I think I know where I can get a telescope

Lakshmi Karan: 26:14

You don't need a

Leigh Morgan: 26:15

up

Lakshmi Karan: 26:15

telescope. I mean, you can see that spot with the naked eye. You had a cell phone, you just, this is this big, round, black spot. I mean, you're not going to see the land though, okay, but you're going to see, you're going to see that spot and you'll say,

Leigh Morgan: 26:29

that spot.

Lakshmi Karan: 26:30

I'll say 30, 000 marginalized community members were the first to collectively come together and say, we, we have a right to be in this conversation.

Leigh Morgan: 26:42

I love it.

Lakshmi Karan: 26:43

We've got another one coming end of the year on the Griffin mission, Griffin Lander, which we are exclusively focusing on indigenous and tribal perspectives. Why humans have been voyages and looking at the stars way before SpaceX or Blue Origin. Okay. And these humans are ancestors understood what stewardship is. What community is that's allowed us to, to thrive and live for millennia. So what better way than to plant the seeds as we become interplanetary to say more than any fancy tech and it's hard. Okay. This tech is all very hard, but compared to the importance of stewardship and community, they will allow us to survive, but what would get us to thrive? is knowing what connects us as human. So that's why the second payload is all about that. we are in the final stages of closing the submissions for it. If anyone who identifies themselves as an indigenous or tribal person wants to contribute, it's no cost. Please reach out to us on our website.

Leigh Morgan: 27:55

I will post that and I will also post some information about the Polynesian Voyaging Society. I used to work and I know a Thompson a modern day Polynesian is a native Pacific native Hawaiian learned the ancient. Craft, of wayfinding, uh, which means that he and his crew can navigate without any instrumentation point to point across the world's largest body, which is the Pacific ocean. But the, Polynesian wayfinders have been going point to point to point. thousands and thousands of years, putting to shame those from Europe but it's an amazing history to understand and learn about Polynesian voyaging society. which relates to why indigenous peoples have these, uh, we might call them technologies today, but they're, uh, ancient practices.

Lakshmi Karan: 28:51

Yeah, I, I learned the term, you know, the sky country, but it's not about the, see, this whole thing is not about the stars. It's not even about the moon. It's what, what we're saying is let's reimagine the possibilities using the collective wisdom that we have, right? It's like the future isn't in the hands of a few who are at the cutting edge of technology. You know, you, you may have the brilliant Einsteins or the mathematicians or the artists. you know, that are now malnourished or refugees. And if we are not finding ways to at least acknowledge that value, we're going to miss out.

Leigh Morgan: 29:29

I think that's important and let's ladder down from this big vision and understanding some of the milestones and things that are happening and hopefully have the kind of impact that you've described. You know, one might reasonably say it's a nutty time here in the world, uh, here in the U. S., on the planet, there's such shifting, dynamics. massive shifts in tone, there's a very aggressive dismantling of, government institutions happening here in the U. S., a role shifting not just the United States, but of many other countries. also we're finding this beautiful assertion of, with indigenous peoples of their ancient wisdom and practices that they bring. What impact does this dynamic time have on LUNARC's work, practically speaking? Is it going to be harder or easier to raise money for this? That's at a very surface level. And then let's talk a little bit more about how this vision might be applicable to things first,

Lakshmi Karan: 30:43

Positive. It's not because I'm an optimist. Let me just say one of the things that's hardest, you know, when I, cause I've worked in nonprofits and suffering is real every day. And you have a lot of people focusing on that and to invite them to say, take some time to think about a future 50 years from now, it's, it's a very difficult thing for them. And that's important work to alleviate suffering in front of you right now. So it's, it's, it's always been challenging to actually say, it's important to do your work, but can you give us 1 percent of your value to help build the future? But now what's happening with this turmoil is. I think people are realizing, if the future's getting written right now, while everyone's focused on the headline or the next tweet, someone's writing that future that will dominate Earth for the next, for the thousands of years to come, okay? And we got to pay attention to both. And we are doing this. So what, so I think in many ways, it's, it's actually, um, reinforced the importance and the sense of urgency on why we need to at least have a conversation about alternative solutions for space. Okay. So that's a, that's a positive. on the practical stuff, um, it's a confession on this podcast. Can I make a confession?

Leigh Morgan: 32:05

this is a confessional sort of space, my friend.

Lakshmi Karan: 32:08

it is, it is, it is, this is a professional confession. I think one of the things that we've done is set the vision and I think what we need to do this year is start to get some funding, fundraising to build on it. I think that is going to be challenging because we've started to see the, the disruption of aid, global aid. I think philanthropy and other potential funders for us might be getting pulled to fill those gaps. So, so I think the, the confession is we, we had plans. of, because as a non profit you're going into philanthropic, funding and, and we know that is going to be challenging given the pressures. that said, the way we see LUNARC is like a mycelium. If LUNARC was to build everything, we'd be at Stanford.

Leigh Morgan: 33:00

Hmm. I see.

Lakshmi Karan: 33:02

Leverage and partnership. So as we're starting to design the model, we're saying if it's co ownership and there's a shared IP and there's a distributed model, how much does Lunark need? What is the cost of a scaffolding? Right? Versus if you're building the slingshot, do you also have to build what gets shot? No. So I think there's a, there's creative ways of thinking about how a new way of collaborating. Might actually even force us to not get too possessive with our model and actually say you know what I think if collaboration happens through leverage, then maybe starting a little bit might be a good thing for us.

Leigh Morgan: 33:45

Very interesting. And that makes me think of literally this space in between

Lakshmi Karan: 33:51

Yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 33:51

new things of holding multiple realities as sacred or valuable at the same time of this new way of collaborating and what have you found with your colleagues? You are coming together. You know, you don't have a CEO. Maybe sometime you'll have some organizational structure that's different, but right now it's a bunch of folks co collaborating on a big vision. You've obviously been able to execute on your vision through the capsule and then the upcoming Griffith launch. So you're doing tangible things. What Would you want listeners to know about how you all have been able to work together

Lakshmi Karan: 34:36

Yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 34:36

on something so unique

Lakshmi Karan: 34:39

Yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 34:40

people, most of us, me included, would have a hard time even envisioning you all have visioned so what do you want us to know?

Lakshmi Karan: 34:49

This, you know, for us, this has been for me personally. I've always been in traditional organizations with structure and everything. So this has been a great learning experience in a positive way for me. Um, so here's the thing. Okay. Our volunteers, we have about 30 people and they float in and out. Like there are a core that's committed, but a lot of people just come in and help when they can. accomplished individuals, leaders in multiple fields. So you know what pulls them together? Why, why do they come here? They could do a bunch of things. They got lives. They got other things going on. They believe in this one possibility. This, this North Star. Okay. We may have other differences. We may have many differences in culture and language with people and from all continents right helping out, but we come in for the singular point of passion of belief of resilience, and so it's actually shaping a model of saying. When we try to collaborate and we try to find common ground, one of the things we look for is, what are the maximum points of intersection? Okay, um, that's great. Listen, if you find that, that's great. Okay, hold on to it. But oftentimes, what you really want to know is, what's really important to you? What's really important to me? And wow, we can actually hold hands there. And can we take that next step together? Okay. Now you might say, you got to go 300, 000 miles Lakshmi, like what's the next step? But wait a minute, wait a minute. Then you get somebody else and they take you two steps. And lo and behold, you have 30 volunteer run organization with a nonprofit, not a lot of money in two years, getting on two lunar missions and sending 30, 000 marginalized community perspectives to the moon. Okay, so this is, this is for me is saying, start with where there's deep alignment.

Leigh Morgan: 36:45

Where there's deep alignment. And I also heard you say you created spaces for hearing what's really important for each person. And in order to do that, that assumes a person tells their story and that story is heard and received. I think that's really important.

Lakshmi Karan: 37:07

Yes, we have to accept that everybody is busy with, they have different passions. Not everybody's going to care about the one thing you care about. Listen, that's not how it works, right? But what you're saying is you're here now. What about this deeply resonates? And, and this work is so audacious, we're saying, if you care about it, you can come and play in that spot that you care about. So we have people who care about different parts of Luna, you know, that they feel like, can I do this? And we're like, great. You want to work on gender equity things. Great. You want to work on a legal IP model. Great. Because, you know, I think that's the invitation to say, meet me from where you're passionate about and let's find a way forward. And that's worked for us. Now, listen, when we scale to a million people, let's do a podcast in a few years and we'll see how that's holding up.

Leigh Morgan: 37:59

I have a feeling in a few years. There will be an increasing hunger for connection right now, it's harder to hear and feel in public. What tends to dominate my view is fragmentation, finger pointing, uh, assumptions of polarized approaches to the world. And there are some really polarized approaches to the world. You know, we see that playing out right now. So I don't mean to minimize that. However, I do believe. That there's more love, there's more kindness, there's more inherent desire to connect with one another. And it may be that we're in a very turbulent time now as part of some lesson to remind us of what's really important, that we have more in common than have. don't have in common. I think that's the main

Lakshmi Karan: 39:03

You know,

Leigh Morgan: 39:03

to say that we don't have differences that sometimes are hard or really hard, but you're describing a vision of what if we had millions of people in three years, when we do this podcast again, and there's a connectivity and an excitement about this new opportunity.

Lakshmi Karan: 39:22

Yeah, this, this is, this. This is something every listener is going to be able to relate to. Well, just think three years ago. Fear united humanity. COVID. There was one singular fear event that united us. Okay. There were conversations about the great reset and we will now move forward. And none of that manifested itself. What we're saying is, if we can unite on that, we can unite on a positive, hopeful, where, that window is actually actionable. Right. And I think that's the, for people to think about it when, when we were in the midst of that, we thought we're all human. We're all suffering. How can we come together? And is there a way to actually not have that fear driven, but actually have it hope and actionable driven to be able to think that overview effect of, you know, blue marble suspended in a mode of dust.

Leigh Morgan: 40:20

Blue marble suspended in a mode of dust. What does that mean?

Lakshmi Karan: 40:24

That is, uh, that was Carl Sagan, um, he, there's this beautiful, you should link to it, um, talk he gave about Earth, um, you know, and how when you zoom out, way out, it's, um, it's a blue dot suspended in a moat of dust. And he talks, he talks beautifully about everyone you've ever heard of and everyone you ever loved and every dictator and every hero. Uh, was in that one speck in the universe.

Leigh Morgan: 40:58

That is, that's beautiful. Carl Sagan, uh, what, he passed how long ago?

Lakshmi Karan: 41:04

I don't know.

Leigh Morgan: 41:06

Quite a while ago. I

Lakshmi Karan: 41:07

That's a video you, you must link. It's, it's, it's so inspiring. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 41:14

listeners. I know there's a of listeners who are. Listening right now and saying, wow, this is amazing. And I just lost my job, because of some turmoil in the world. I'm not sure if. It's safe for me to walk outside because people might, um, I'm transgendered or, you know, that cuts across all different dimensions, right? If your rise of antisemitism, the rise of, um, gender violence, all the challenges that we see and people from all walks of life, left, right, center. Too often don't feel seen and heard. we have this grand vision that you're painting. of my questions have been to listeners understand how this does tack back to the here and now some of the lessons of being able to work together and you know, how do you square that circle with the, and you mentioned the suffering before and

Lakshmi Karan: 42:20

Yeah. So

Leigh Morgan: 42:20

yeah,

Lakshmi Karan: 42:21

this is what I, you know, I said, where does hope come from? Hope comes from knowing someone, somewhere, somewhere might be doing something to alleviate your suffering. Not that someone can be God, that someone can be a partner, that someone can be anywhere, right? Like hope. And I say, when you're, if you're, find yourself in the midst of suffering right now, and when you're listening to this, the one thing I would want you to walk away is saying, believe that someone's going, is working on addressing your concern. I think you need to hold on to that hope. But also know that somewhere in a corner of the world, a bunch of volunteers. Also keeping an eye out for something in the future. That's it. I think put your oxygen mask first, have hope that your situation, there's a community working for your situation, but also you can say 50 years from now, there's a community working for something there.

Leigh Morgan: 43:23

that's, that's a beautiful sentiment And I was on your website, Lakshmi, I'm going to read statement that's on your website, which I think is really beautiful that pulls down this wisdom that you just shared with us. it says, we are uniting a diverse representation of humans across borders, cultures, generations, and backgrounds to collaborate and create a better future for all through space exploration. In a world where space exploration seems confined to the elite, dare to dream differently. It's kind of powerful, my friend,

Lakshmi Karan: 44:07

Thank you. Come join us, Lee.

Leigh Morgan: 44:09

I, I think I am right now It's very exciting. Any other words of wisdom, Lakshmi, for all of us who are holding this tension of dealing with own sense of hope and optimism. Well, bearing witness and trying to also help address suffering that's in the world

Lakshmi Karan: 44:29

well, this is my, this is my belief. Okay. Listen, find the pause. There's so much chatter. Find the pause, because there is goodness within you. And when you find the pause, you may connect with it. And look up at the stars. You know, there's like crazy stuff happening in that expanding universe, whether you want to go to the moon, like, it doesn't matter, but it's not about space exploration. Just look up at the stars, look at that centipede, create that pause. Because I think at the end of the day, every moment of life happens in those pauses. And I hope people find that in the midst of the chaos.

Leigh Morgan: 45:14

I think that's where the space in between is in those pauses. I'm glad to share this space with you, Lakshmi. Every time I talk to you, I feel more hopeful and more optimistic about the here and now and the future. Thanks. being on the space in between podcast

Lakshmi Karan: 45:34

Thank you. And if this was a video, I'd hold up my hands and in the Star Trek tradition and say live long and prosper. So I just said it now. You have to imagine the hand.

Leigh Morgan: 45:45

live long and prosper. All right. Thank you. My friend.

45:52

I hope you. Enjoyed this episode of the space in between podcast. If. If you did, please hit the like button and leave a review. Wherever you listen to the show. And check out the space. Space in between.com website, where you can also leave me a message.